What kind of dance is "Shall We Dance" in "The King and I"

[j***@gmail.com]

What kind of dance is "Shall We Dance" in "The King and I"

Thanks,
John

[a***@uymail.com]

Post by j***@gmail.com
What kind of dance is "Shall We Dance" in "The King and I"

I believe it's a "fast" Waltz, which is equivalent to current-day
Viennese Waltz, without the refined technique. If the dancers
are twirling around each other going in circles around the floor,
then they are doing this Polka-ish Waltz. In most movies,
when they talk about doing the Waltz, they are actually
doing the (technique-wanting) Viennese Waltz rather than
the current-day (slow) Waltz.

[a***@uymail.com]

Post by a***@uymail.com
I believe it's a "fast" Waltz, which is equivalent to current-day

Same Rodgers+Hammerstein song is used as title song of Japanese
ballroom movie by that name:

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/6860511/a/Shall+We+Dance+With+Love+Cinema.htm

[Kim Sifter]

Post by a***@uymail.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
What kind of dance is "Shall We Dance" in "The King and I"

I believe it's a "fast" Waltz, which is equivalent to current-day
Viennese Waltz, without the refined technique. If the dancers
are twirling around each other going in circles around the floor,
then they are doing this Polka-ish Waltz. In most movies,
when they talk about doing the Waltz, they are actually
doing the (technique-wanting) Viennese Waltz rather than
the current-day (slow) Waltz.

Since the music in question is not a waltz (3/4 time), you wouldn't
call the dance steps that they are doing a waltz, Viennese or slow.
It's been a long time since I have see the Yule Brenner version of King
and I and have never seen the Jodie Foster version, but if memory
serves me correct they are doing basic chasse steps or triples (three
weight changes in two beats of music). I'm not an expert on polka but
I'd call it that.

Kim Sifter

[a***@uymail.com]

Post by Kim Sifter
Since the music in question is not a waltz (3/4 time), you wouldn't
call the dance steps that they are doing a waltz, Viennese or slow.
It's been a long time since I have see the Yule Brenner version of King
and I and have never seen the Jodie Foster version, but if memory
serves me correct they are doing basic chasse steps or triples (three
weight changes in two beats of music). I'm not an expert on polka but
I'd call it that.

The portion of the music (near the "shall we dance" lyrics) I had in
my head was very "Waltz-y," but now that I've heard the whole
song, I'd say it's poor for (non-choreographed) dancing
altogether because it has way too many breaks and tempo
changes. It's such a potpourri of sounds that it's hard to
stick to any one fixed dance, but "Polka" probably works better
because it's more "improvisational" than Waltz (or Foxtrot
[although I don't hear any of the "mellow" quality of Foxtrot music]).
I doubt any good dance DJ would bother playing something so
odd at a dance.

[Richard Maurer]

avid_dancer wrote:
I believe it's a "fast" Waltz, which is
equivalent to current-day Viennese Waltz,
without the refined technique.  If the dancers
are twirling around each other going in circles
around the floor, then they are doing this
Polka-ish Waltz.  In most movies, when they
talk about doing the Waltz, they are actually
doing the (technique-wanting) Viennese Waltz
rather than the current-day (slow) Waltz.


This description is somewhat correct.
(Rotary waltz intends to be rotary, or rather
a mixture of rotary and linear, and may be just a
plain waltz or a fast waltz according to the music --
fast would be about International Viennese Waltz
speed.) However, I am still taken aback by your
description of a "traditional" or "rotary" waltz
as Polka-ish. Fast polka does not have any epicycles.
After a while I could come up with one similarity:
they both usually rotate clockwise.

The strange thing is that your two comparison waltzes
(Blackpool Waltz and Blackpool Viennese Waltz)
resemble the polka more than the rotary waltz does.
They both emphasize linear motion [1], as the polka does.
The Blackpool waltz uses lots and lots of body flight.
The polka also has masses and masses of body flight.
Do International Standard dancers admire the great amount
of body flight in a fast polka? I am mildly curious,
I know cs is contractually obligated not to admire
anything in any other genre of dance, but maybe someone
will know. Blackpool quickstep is the dance that most
resembles polka, having the closest music,
and some of the same figures.



[1] I assume here that Blackpool Viennese Waltz
is similar to that seen locally. For some reason
that I cannot fathom the Blackpool 2005 dvd did not
have any of that dance, although they had Latin,
and they had semi-finals; they had endless calling
of numbers and dancers swooshing out but not yet
dancing; they had the presentation of judges;
they had the analysis section which showed
the same focus footage seen before;
they had interviews with functionaries;
but they did not have even two minutes of
Viennese Waltz. What's up with that?

[A] Bonus Question: Is there any other couples dance
that emphasizes body flight as much as
polka and the Blackpool dances? OK, besides Redowa.
[Just asking, don't have an answer.]

-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Richard Maurer
[1] I assume here that Blackpool Viennese Waltz
is similar to that seen locally. For some reason
that I cannot fathom the Blackpool 2005 dvd did not
have any of that dance, although they had Latin,
and they had semi-finals; they had endless calling
of numbers and dancers swooshing out but not yet
dancing; they had the presentation of judges;
they had the analysis section which showed
the same focus footage seen before;
they had interviews with functionaries;
but they did not have even two minutes of
Viennese Waltz. What's up with that?

I suspect it is some variation on on "NOT INVENTED HERE"
At this point it's simply tradition, as the same couples will do five
dances when they meet in other comeptitions.

As for VW and polka... when forced to fake something polkaish during
intermission of a competition (aka the "fun dances"), it occured to me
that one of the common interpretations being invented was sort of the
opposite of VW... bouncy instead of smooth, mostly change steps with
few turns...

[Richard Maurer]

Richard Maurer wrote:
but they did not have even two minutes of
Viennese Waltz. What's up with that?


cs wrote:
I suspect it is some variation on on
"NOT INVENTED HERE" At this point it's simply tradition,
as the same couples will do five dances
when they meet in other comeptitions.



That was an unexpected answer. They don't even do it?
The agency that writes the rulebook, the technique book
that ballroom competitors and teachers are to study
and they don't do the dance. What's up with that?
How did it come to be?

-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
I suspect it is some variation on on
"NOT INVENTED HERE"
That was an unexpected answer. They don't even do it?
The agency that writes the rulebook, the technique book
that ballroom competitors and teachers are to study
and they don't do the dance. What's up with that?
How did it come to be?

I don't believe the organizers of the British Open publish any
technique book.

You might be interested to know however that Viennese Waltz is not in
the ISTD ballroom techinque manual either. They do publish a seperate
pamphlet on it though. I'm not sure about other organizations.

To some extent, everyone at that level knows how to do Viennese Waltz,
its not really "interesting" most of the time in terms of telling the
couples apart (it is elegant and exciting but often competitively
boring) and so its presence in everyone else's five-dance event is
almost as purely traditional as it's abscence from Blackpool.

[Matthew Lybanon]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by c***@hotmail.com
I suspect it is some variation on on
"NOT INVENTED HERE"
That was an unexpected answer. They don't even do it?
The agency that writes the rulebook, the technique book
that ballroom competitors and teachers are to study
and they don't do the dance. What's up with that?
How did it come to be?

I don't believe the organizers of the British Open publish any
technique book.
You might be interested to know however that Viennese Waltz is not in
the ISTD ballroom techinque manual either. They do publish a seperate
pamphlet on it though. I'm not sure about other organizations.
To some extent, everyone at that level knows how to do Viennese Waltz,
its not really "interesting" most of the time in terms of telling the
couples apart (it is elegant and exciting but often competitively
boring) and so its presence in everyone else's five-dance event is
almost as purely traditional as it's abscence from Blackpool.

Viennese Waltz is in (at least) the USISTD American Style Ballroom Silver
Syllabus. The V. Waltz section has one page devoted to technique,
explaining the difference between rise and fall in V. Waltz compared to
(slow) Waltz and Foxtrot. What is not in that syllabus is Quickstep, I
guess because they consider QS to be (only) International.

[JC Dill]

Post by j***@gmail.com
What kind of dance is "Shall We Dance" in "The King and I"

<http://www.firstdanceimpressions.com/dd.html>

Says:

<quote>

Polka

[...]

Most people will remember it as the dance Deborah Kerr and Yul Brynner
did swirling around the ballroom in "The King and I".

Polkas:
· "The Beer Barrel Polka" by Lawerence Welk
· "Shall We Dance?" from "The King and I" soundtrack
· "Back In The Saddle Again" by Gene Autry

</quote>

[Richard Maurer]

john asked:
What kind of dance is "Shall We Dance"
in "The King and I"


JC Dill found a website that said it was a polka
and that:
Most people will remember it as the dance
Deborah Kerr and Yul Brynner did swirling
around the ballroom in "The King and I".



I just saw the Richard Gere version of _Shall We Dance_
where the studio owner was trying to get him to dance
to the title song like Yul Brynner and Debrah Kerr did.
They did a polka ... while everyone else in the
disco-ballroom was doing a foxtrot. A foxtrot makes
sense as the music most of the time lacks the lift
for a polka and sounds more suitable for
a ballroom two-step of the 1800s.

-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------